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hihat
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Posts: 241
(8/9/07 11:24 am)
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|  BMR Book Updated
I was killing time in a local B&N when I spotted an updated copy of Hank Bordowitz' Bad Moon Rising bio of CCR. It revealed a few things I didn't know. I didn't know that John had been "let go" by Dreamworks Records after Deja Vu sold only around 200,000 copies. Apparently 500,000 is the mark an album needs to hit for a record company to retain interest in an artist. So John's return to Fantasy is opportune for him as well as the company. The other depressing claim involves CCRevisited: it claims those guys sell more concert tickets than John! Now this is REALLY a lamentable situation. Are people really so dumb that they haven't figured out who John Fogerty is after all these years? Has his publicity been that spotty? Or do people think they're getting a better deal at a Regurgitated concert -- one-half of CCR versus one-quarter? (Ignoring the fact that there would have been no CCR without that quarter!) Well, it's up to us Fogerfans to continue to spread the word: John Fogerty was and is the genius of Creedence. Back to the updated book, Stu and Doug hang over every page of the new chapter like the same pathetic magpies who have to take a dump on their golden goose every time he walks by. I'm as sorry as the next guy that John, Stu, and Doug couldn't get along, and as much as I love John, I'm sure he wasn't the easiest guy to get along with. (What I recall of his childhood and youth would predict all this: abandonment by his dad and betrayal by his porcine boss at Fantasy. This is heavy-duty stuff that requires YEARS of psychotherapy to fix, and I don't know if John has ever gone that route.) Still, I wish Stu and Doug would just button it if they have nothing good to say about John. I'm sure most of us here would agree that the world would probably have come to hear about John without Doug and Stu; I seriously doubt the opposite would have been true. Well, let us hope that Revival rocks as hard as advance word suggests. And let us not forget: new John Fogerty albums make excellent holiday presents!!!
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Johnny-boy Robeson
aka/ NotWalkinBlind
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Posts: 1952
(8/9/07 11:36 am)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
Quote:
The other depressing claim involves CCRevisited: it claims those guys sell more concert tickets than John! Now this is REALLY a lamentable situation.
This is not depressing and/or lamentable.
First of all, CCRevisited has played more gigs than John since they formed in 1995, so it's a matter of availability, not that people are being duped... they're not, BTW.
Secondly, you should be happy that people are still enjoying these great songs in a live setting... these people are taking their kids and grandkids and friends and solidifying fans of the music as well as creating new fans.
You mentioned years of psychotherapy as possibly being a fix for John... now imagine this "fix" had already occurred in '95 when Doug and Stu asked John if he'd like to tour and perform, and we had been enjoying 3/4 of Creedence for the last 12 years.
How depressing and lamentable is it that that hasn't happened?
Edited by: NotWalkinBlind at: 8/9/07 11:37 am
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he was on the mule ride
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Posts: 429
(8/9/07 11:57 am)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
The one thing I will add from my experience is there are lots of people who when you mention the name John Fogerty are not sure of the name. When you add that he was the main guy in CCR and you name a few songs then everyone knows who he is. Just convince someone to go to 1 concert of his and he'll then have 1 more fan for life. I'm sure though that after the excellent marketing that seems to be in place for the new album things will change. Loads of airplay will put John right back at the top of popularity. Here's hoping so anyway !!!
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Scarecrow
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Posts: 4063
(8/9/07 12:12 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
.. what? .. I thought the BMR book was published yearrrrrrrrs ago .. now it has an added chapter??? .. what's up with that? .. let's add another chapter of crap on John? .. now that's just not right .. John having a resurgence, then the turd book is updated and released again? ...... I dunno the real story .. but being "let go" .... can be just in the eye of the beholder ... aaaaand ... CCRev don't have to worry about "arranging and producing" NEW songs like John does ... all CCRev has to do is tour a coupla months on the casino circuit .. take a break for a month ... then go out on the county fair circuit .. take a break ... then go back out on the casino circuit .. again! .. and with that work paradigm .. they might lap Fogey over a few years time .. but they ain't never gonna have that concert slam dunk that John can do when he is on tour .. or capture that "guess who's coming to town to play" vibe that John can create .. or capture his record sales .. just MHO ..
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penthouse pauper
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Posts: 598
(8/9/07 12:25 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
Hi hihay! There is some very interesting things in this updated BMR book. I agree, the Deja Vu was a weak album by John. I still feel personally after the lawsuit by Fantasy of John being acused of plagarizing his own music, and yes John was exonerated, that it stiffled John's writing ability. I made reference to this in a post maybe a year ago, that I'm sure John didn't want anymore lawsuits with the old Fantasy and that they had very deep pockets etc. They old Saul Zantez Fantasy seemed to be out to get John. So I feel it really stiffled Johns writing ability. Now that John is back with the "new" Fantasy he doesn't have to worry about these things. Maybe, we are lucky as fans that Deja Vu did only sell 200,000 copies and John was let go by Dreamworks, if this is true! This is what made the hook-up with the "new" Fantasy possible.
As far as the Revisited out drawing John, it doesn't supprise me. They are using the name that so closely resembles the legendary Creedence Clearwater Revival, and that is a travisity of justice. They can deny all they want (CCrv) that they go to great lenghts to not use the acronym CCR, but that doesn't fool me or most of us true, blue fans. Even in their hey day, just about everyone called them Creedence or CCR. However, I will admitt that CCrv plays the music closer to the original then John does now. I personally, wish that John would play the music closer to the orginal sound, too! From I have read, John said that they all had an agreement that, either all of them would use the name together, or none of them would use the name. Creedence Clearwater Revival had such a fantastic, but short career, that nobody really got to know the names of the band members. When you think of it, their greatness grew more after 1972, and is still growing today. So with John going into hibernation for so many years, his name never got well known. He is just now coming into his own and getting the just dues he deserves as the leader and driving force behind Creedence Clearwater Revival. Doug Clifford and Stu Cook, as stand alone artists don't hold a candle to John. That is why they deceided to use the name the so closely resembles the original. I think the physchotherapy you allude to, John already has. That would be a big dose of Julie Krammer!!!!
All of the above is my own personal views.
pp
_____________________
Always remember, those who hate you don't win, unless you hate them. And then, you destroy yourself.
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2lines
Registered Member
Posts: 212
(8/9/07 12:41 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
Quote:
Back to the updated book, Stu and Doug hang over every page of the new chapter like the same pathetic magpies who have to take a dump on their golden goose every time he walks by.
As opposed to the pathetic magpies here who have to "take a dump" on Stu and Doug and Revisited every chance they get?? Maybe you should go and have another listen to "Don't You Wish It Was True".
Revisited is what it is. It's been that way for over 10 years now. Haven't changed, haven't attempted to represent itself as anything other than what it is. They've been completely transparent and upfront about what they attempt to do at their concerts. They even outline it on their website www.creedence-revisited.com . There's always a wide cross-section of ages and demographics at their shows. Many of them seem like they would be fairly "computer-literate", and would be perfectly capable of doing a little research online before going to a Revisited show. Maybe at this point, 35 years on, it just doesn't matter to most concert-goers as much as you think it should. Maybe you need to face a fact that could be staring you in the face, and that you don't want to accept...that Revisited audiences know that JCF isn't the lead singer, but go to the concert anyway, and enjoy themselves immensely in spite of it.
Instead of dumping on them, maybe they deserve more credit than you give them for their business sense alone. They identified a large, gaping hole in the very competitive live music scene in the mid-90's, and they filled it. After all, no one was playing Creedence songs live, and hadn't been for 20+ years. There was a pent-up demand for live Creedence music that wasn't being met. By anyone. I'd call it a pretty smart move, actually. John chose to not give the people what they wanted, so Stu and Doug did.
So, now that John has seen the wisdom of what Revisited started, and his shows have gone from 0% Creedence music to 90% Creedence music, all of a sudden Revisited should stop what they started and go away?? Seems to me that what they did, business-wise, is the classic definition of the "American Way".
I'm always curious as to how some people here would regard Revisited if John would have stuck with his convictions and was still refusing to play Creedence songs live in concert? An interesting conundrum... -- 2
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LEON CHAMELEON
Registered Member
Posts: 3264
(8/9/07 1:33 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
yadda yadda yadda
ccrv does what they do and they do it well. ccrv are the original ccr rhythm section. No one today comes close to preserving the original ccr sound as they do. That's all they want to do.
No one does it better than ccrv in this regard.
jcf however, is taking a long time to get into his own space. I think the Revival cd is going to do it for him. Everyone will know John Fogerty for being JohnFogerty as well as being the vocalist and all the other stuff for ccr.
Plenty of room for ccrv over there and plenty of room for jcf over here.
Doug Clifford said it best; ccr took care of each and every hurdle except success. Thre were a lot of errors made, this is a very bad habbit that all people have. Errors continued to be made over the years. Everyone suffered due to the ccr split in one way or another, including the true blue fan however, and once again, it is obvious that jcf got the raw end of the deal more so than anyone else.
I think it is about time all this stuff came to a close. I think that the "Revival" cd is going to make John Fogerty and intermational house hold name especially the song; Don't You Wish It Was True.
ccrv in concert and jcf in concert are both very good and completely different especially with the new loud wide open jcf patented raw energy sound in his concerts.
I am quit happy to go to a ccrv concert and a jcf concert.
The original sound is over there and the new wide open original sound is over here and I have nothing to complain about.
Thank you for all the great music coming at me from all over the place and from all directions.
There is no more to say.
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hihat
Registered Member
Posts: 242
(8/9/07 2:12 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
Personally I don't care who John's backup band is, whether it's Stu and Doug or the ace guys he has now... Seeing a bunch of journeymen cover John's music is IMO far less edifying than seeing the actual genius who wrote, sang, and played the legendary songs on one of his many gee-tars. He was and continues to be a BRILLIANT showman as well, far surpassing a certain mundane rhythm section. Otherwise I assume John's songs continue to sell themselves, just as they did in 1968...
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hihat
Registered Member
Posts: 243
(8/9/07 2:19 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
I think you misread my post. I didn't say that Stu and Doug shouldn't play CCR songs, I said they should shut their pieholes at this point if they have nothing positive to say. After all, John's music has given them a very good living for many years now! I am ALSO suggesting, however, that I can't see any point in going to see a CCRv show when John is also touring -- or when two live DVDs as good as Premonition or TLRH are readily available... Yes, CCRv served a purpose when John wasn't playing CCR but now -- I think not.
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seethelight57
Registered Member
Posts: 508
(8/9/07 3:28 pm)
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| Re: BMR Book Updated
Around and around and around we go.....
Didn't we just leave this party?
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110 in the Shade
Registered Member
Posts: 6
(8/9/07 3:50 pm)
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|  Ha ha ha ha ha
Some of this stuff is more like looking down the throat of a --
Speculation, supposition and a buck-and-a-quarter will get ya' cup of mud at your local McDonald's diner. But it sho' don't make this line of reasoning(?) true.
Quote:
So, now that John has seen the wisdom of what Revisited started--
Yeah. Uh-Huh. John's had some epiphany and seen Revisited's wisdom breaking through the clouds.
Sure.
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2lines
Registered Member
Posts: 213
(8/9/07 5:16 pm)
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| Re: Ha ha ha ha ha
Quote:
Yeah. Uh-Huh. John's had some epiphany and seen Revisited's wisdom breaking through the clouds.
So...you're willing to state with absolute certainty that the formation of Revisited, and them hitting the road to play Creedence songs had absolutely nothing to do with John's 180 degree turn re playing Creedence songs live in his shows?? Even though nothing had changed regarding the rights and royalties situation with Fantasy Records??
Yeah. Uh-Huh. Sure. -- 2
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 tazzboy
Registered Member
Posts: 449
(8/9/07 6:08 pm)
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| Re: Ha ha ha ha ha
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he was on the mule ride
Registered Member
Posts: 430
(8/9/07 7:06 pm)
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| Leon you make too much sense
I'm not going to get involved in this one except to say... Leon me thinks u hit the nail on the head. It's a big world. Lots of room for everyone. |
LEON CHAMELEON
Registered Member
Posts: 3269
(8/9/07 7:14 pm)
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| Re: Leon you make too much sense
rock on Brian |
110 in the Shade
Registered Member
Posts: 7
(8/9/07 8:20 pm)
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| Ha ha ha ha ha
Quote:
So...you're willing to state--
I'm not the one who came in here speculating what John has thought or why he has done anything that he's done. You have and you are.
So I don't have to state with absolute certainty anything, except that speculation, supposition and a buck-and-a-quarter will get ya' a cup of mud at your local McDonald's diner. But it sho' don't make your line of reasoning(?) true.
And if anyone wishes to know my real reason for entering this thread in the first place, which I doubt that anyone is even interested, it was to change this to this Ha ha ha ha ha.
Some people really need to take to heart what this guy once said.
"Barry, remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."
Thank Hugh-- And Goodnight!
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